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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Apr 20, 2010 7:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: soundboard trading policy - a clarification

I thought it worthwhile to try and clarify the situation regarding soundboards to try and cut through some of the hot air being spouted elsewhere. So far as I know, these guidelines, put out by GDP, have not been superseded. As usual with these things, of course, always let your conscience be your guide.

Anyway, it's nice to be back. Who let the troll in?



Last update of this: 7/11/05
IMPORTANT: In 2005, 2 fresh communications were received by etree.org.Grateful Dead Productions intends that SBD material for a date matching a commercially released date must not be traded. -Diana

Received by the bt.etree.org team, 7/8/05:

"Referring to your offering of Grateful Dead's 07-04-89 Rich
Stadium/Buffalo show, although your download is not the commercial version recently released by Grateful Dead Productions ("Truckin' Up To Buffalo - offered as both DVD and soundtrack CDs), the standard etiquette when a show is commercially released is for traders to stop offering the show in soundboard form. Therefore, we respectfully request that you remove this show from your offerings.

"We appreciate the service etree.org provides to the public, and hope and trust that you can understand our position."


On 7/11, GDP clarified that the 7/8 message's "soundboard or audience" mention was mistaken:

"Dear etree,

"Thank you for promptly removing the show discussed below. I'm afraid I made an error when I said that traders should stop offering _audience_recordings after a show has been commercially released. We only ask that _soundboard_ recordings stop being circulated after a show has beencommercially released."


***Previous comments, besides the
STATEMENT TO MP3 SITE OPERATORS
http://www.dead.net/hotline_info/NEW_DOCUMENTS/mp3.html
***

following was at http://www.dead.net/hotline_info/NEW_DOCUMENTS/trading/
circa 2001-2002

RE: OUR LONG STANDING POLICY REGARDING TAPE TRADING


Dear Dead Heads,

We have a simple taping policy. It's okay with us to tape live Grateful Dead performances and trade them freely, so long as no money changes hands. You send 'em a blank, they make you a tape, and vise-versa. As soon as money enters in on any level, it's a commercial transaction; and with our music, decisions on commerce are ours and ours alone.

Thank you,

Grateful Dead
***

For the record, earlier fan questions prompted a few other responses below. Anything in them is presumably superseded by the 2005 stance above.

***
Elaboration 1:

From: GDP Intellectual Property Division
To:
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 12:24 PM
Subject: Fwd: taping concern

> Hi, thanks for your concern. We have no problem with you trading
> audience tapes of any show, released or not. But you cannot sell any
> of the music, and you cannot trade tapes of a released CD. Like, you
> can't make a tape of a Dick's Pick and then trade that. But if it's
> an audience tape of the same show, trade away. I hope that answers
> your question. Happy trading...
>
> Jan Simmons
> GRATEFUL DEAD PRODUCTIONS, INC.
> P.O. Box X
> Novato, CA. 94948
> >>From: "darren"
> >>To:
> >>Subject: taping concern
> >>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 07:57:05 -0500
> >>X-Priority: 3
> >>
> >>Hey Now, hows it going? I had a question regarding taping. Can you
point
> >>me to the recording/trading policy of the Dead? I am wondering if its
still
> >>ok to trade a show thats been released? Like say, one of the Dicks
Picks,
> >>but of course, from a different source(Not the source Dick released)? Is
> >>that still accepable for trading, or is it once released, NO trading of
that
> >>show whatsoever? Any feed back would be much appreciated. Thanks, and
have
> >>it good!
> >>darren


***
Elaboration 2:

From: GDP Intellectual Property Division
To: "Kirby Bell"
Subject: Re: GD tape trading policy
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:51:39 -0800

As I just wrote to someone else who just submitted the same question:

No, soundboards are not okay to trade after the show has been officially released. Technically, audience taping was the only thing the band ever authorized, not soundboards. Audience tapes of the same show are okay to
trade.

Thanks for asking,
Jan


>Hello
>
>I am hoping that you can clarify something for me(and the rest of the
>trading community).
>
>I know that selling or any kind of profiteering of any GD music is
>verboten. However, it is my understanding that once a show is released
>commercially that it is still okay to trade AUDIENCE recordings of said
>show. My question has to do with soundboard recordings of a commercially
>released show. Obviously you can't tape a commercial release and trade
>that. But what about trading soundboard recordings that were in circulation
>before the commercial release?? Are these still fair game?
>
>The reason why I ask is that a lot of traders seem to think that because it
>is okay to trade audience recordings of a commercially released show it is
>okay to trade the old soundboard tapes as well.
>
>I think the GD trading policy needs to updated to address trading SBD and
>AUD recordings of commercially released shows.
>
>Sincerely,
>Kirby Bell

***
Elaboration 3:

Message from Jan, passed along to Diana Hamilton by Tony Gardner on
1/25/2004:

Tony remarked in preface, "Here is a letter from Jan at GDP that reiterates the policy we have always observed. I know there have been other letters floating around which contradict this one, but, obviously, this is the one we'll be using from here on ;-)

Here is the exact letter from Jan at GDP:

This question seems to be coming up a lot. As I told someone else recently:

Tapers are free to trade their old sound boards of shows, so long as they don't trade the re-mastered versions that we put out.

Thanks for checking,
Jan

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 20, 2010 7:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: soundboard trading policy - a clarification

Right you are; and yes, good to see you back (short email sent, but you "answered" in part by showing up!).

I think I have said it so many times (my particular take on the "biz issues" associated with band approaches to "sharing of tapes, AUDs, SBDs, etc.) that we just needed you here to link one of my prior posts (excepting it often reveals some contradictory remark on my part, so maybe it worked out for me afterall that you weren't here...).

Other than the usual name calling though, it seems we sometimes advance with a small input of info for consideration (eg, DP's links/tome on how the biz models might work for bands in the future).

I just love the whole "I told you so!" (I get one?!) if in ten yrs bands decide, based on DP's future graduate degree work meta-analysis, revealing that "yes, in fact, the best biz model for bands is to give lots of music away for free, and get their $ in other contexts"...

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Apr 20, 2010 7:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: soundboard trading policy - a clarification

Troll origins, according to Mandojammer: "You are what happens when someone leaves the douchebag back flow preventer valve open."

Thankfully, with the valve open, douchebaggery flows freely in both the in and out direction.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 20, 2010 7:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: soundboard trading policy - a clarification

Yes, as noted by other before me, thank you for your posting of what seems to be a very clear answer to the questions that have been bandied about as of late. True, you did approach this with a typically long-winded outpouring of information, the very quantity of which has, I'm sure, left many a reader scratching their long since bare heads.

AUD's: OK
SBD's: NO when commercial release of same show

And most definitley NO if money is involved.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Apr 20, 2010 8:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: soundboard trading policy - a clarification

A succinct summary and good-humored witty commentary from a gentleman poster. Thank you.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 20, 2010 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: soundboard trading policy - a clarification

"a gentleman poster"

Yikes! Now I've heard everything...I remind you that the "gentlemen" in question (!), hails from the lovely sunbaked state of Arizona, where the lizards hold their tails off the ground, the snakes bite first and ask questions later if so inclined, and varmints can carry guns without training...and law abiding citizens as well.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 20, 2010 10:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: soundboard trading policy - a clarification

First day in AZ and I went to grocery store to fill the new fridge. Saw a gentleman in a Harley t-shirt with a Glock 10 on his hip shopping for some greens. It was then I realized that Arizona produce must be deadly and you must protect yourself at all times. Now I never leave the compound without my trusty M-60. A pack of wild avacados almost killed my dog.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 20, 2010 10:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: soundboard trading policy - a clarification

Ha! The M-60's for the kid; the other two carry SAWs, and the 50 mounted on the roof provides parking lot coverage...I, as Rob will fondly note, in the position of supreme power (the family actually calls me "Prime Minister" now, but don't tell GN), carry only a swagger stick, lest we need to "go over the top" (of the banana stand?) just as his long lost brethren did in 1914...we only go shopping in a squad--er, family. BTW, watch out for the artichokes too; one of the kids mistook one for a frag granade we dropped. We were momentarily defenseless.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 20, 2010 11:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: soundboard trading policy - a clarification

Recently overhead at a supermarket in AZ...

"Grenade, everyone dive behind the potatoes!! I said potatoes not tomatoes that thing will slice through that pile of Big Boys like a Ginsu!! Wait, its just an artichoke, at ease everyone, at ease."

"Clean up on aisle 1. Bring the mop."

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Apr 20, 2010 7:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: soundboard trading policy - a clarification

thank you for the much needed breath of fresh air.

essentially, the files that magically end up on our computers after streaming are not even "illegal" because you can't stream commercial releases in any case. excellent.

and there's no need to use these archive loopholes for inferior quality files if you know how to use torrents to get the highest quality transfers in lossless format.

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Poster: craven714 Date: Apr 20, 2010 7:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: soundboard trading policy - a clarification

thank you. thank you. thank you.
I didnt want to have to get Ducats involved...